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Mind Threads: Bodie, Doyle and RC Saints

(I do need more Pros icons. Either having a hunt to find some or making some. I made a load of Sherlock icons (including all the Collared ones for 221b_hound and then never updated natsuko_icons. It's like with fic, photos, drawings and more general fan-art; I *do* it and then don't post because I've lost courage and think other people do it better.

That was actually the idea with the Pros Big Bang - signing up meant I would *have* to call the fic finished at some point - rather than an upteenth "neverending story" while I say, "I'm sure the next draft will be better" or "I'm not quite happy with it. Let me tinker." - and Post. I seriously blame the response to the last fic I posted - or at least, my response to that response! - where I asked for constructive criticism if people cared to give it, and the one comment basically amounted to, "Good understanding of the characters, and at least you can spell and put together an English sententence, so that's good! But you cannot structure a story at all. What did the beginning and the end have to do with the middle?"... and *years* on, phrases from that crit still haunt me. Even after 221b_hound read the crit and *then* the fic - unasked - and said that the criticism basically amounted to, "You didn't write the fic I wanted to read!" rather than anything related to my writing. Funny how it's easier to believe negative comments than the supportive ones, especially if the support comes from friends. Why are friends less likely to tell the truth than strangers?)

Anyway, seeing heliophile_oxon's Cover for Elizabeth O'Shea's Voice-over, made me wonder all over again, whether EOS knew that St Michael the Archangel (see the fic!) is the patron of both policemen and paratroopers...

I'd bet TPTB behind "Cry Wolf" and the whole Susan Grant thing did *not* know that St William is the patron of adopted children.

And I doubt that Brian Clemens et al never thought about St Raymond (of Penafort) being the patron of lawyers and St Raymond Nonnatus (also patron of childbirth and midwives as in the Nonnatus House of Call the Midwife) being the patron of those who are falsely accused, when they named the hot-tempered ex-policeman who yearns for justice and broods on what their orders - and necessity - sometimes mean for the other side. (I was given the prompt in #antidiogenes - my IRC writing group - "punk undercover police-officer" the other day, and thought of him. :D)

And I wonder whether in "Blood Sports" they really *thought* about what a Bodie-apt sport cricket is. I mean, it's not like football (associaton *or* rugby) where even the stars, the goal-scorers - is a Conversion a "goal"? - are dependent on the others of their team, to make good passes and to keep the Defence off their backs etc. You might play cricket as a team, but you act as an individual, whether batting, bowling or even fielding. The only interaction really necessary is letting your other batsman know whether to run, so you don't end up running out your own team-mate. *Was* it deliberate?

Comments

( 10 comments — Leave a comment )
msmoat
Aug. 27th, 2014 10:25 am (UTC)
This is fascinating all the way through, but I wanted to say that I asked EOS about "Voice-over". She says she knew about St Michael the Archangel being the patron saint of policemen, but it was serendipity that he is also the patron saint of paratroopers. Although then she said that that association did niggle a faint memory. So, perhaps it was a subconscious thing!

I don't know if I agree that bodie would prefer a game where you are an individual within a team rather than a pure team sport. Although certainly I could buy that interpretation of him for the duration of a story. You could argue that his "team" experience has always been as an individual within a team, especially in the SAS. But I dunno… Mind you, I do love "Scoring a Try". *g* (Oh dear, I hope that's the title. Ack! My memory…)
natsuko1978
Aug. 27th, 2014 06:44 pm (UTC)
That's cool! I thought maybe she might know *something*. I am usually more willing to assume knowledge for fans than I am PTB. :)

I just don't see Bodie as very patient with or willing to trust hs team-mates to do their part right. I get a mental image of him sounding off in the changing rooms about whatever mistakes the others had made. But maybe that's more me than him? *shrugs*
natsuko1978
Nov. 20th, 2014 10:40 am (UTC)
This is fascinating all the way through, but I wanted to say that I asked EOS about "Voice-over". She says she knew about St Michael the Archangel being the patron saint of policemen, but it was serendipity that he is also the patron saint of paratroopers. Although then she said that that association did niggle a faint memory. So, perhaps it was a subconscious thing!

As a addendum, I thought I'd let you know (and maybe EOS via you?) that I've just discovered that St Michael the Archangel is *also* the patron-saint of the security-services (and I think CI-5 would count!): so he scores a hat-trick!
moonlightmead
Aug. 27th, 2014 10:37 am (UTC)
See, all of this proves that we think a lot more about the show that the actual creators. Brian Clemens is on record several times as saying that he thinks research gets in the way of the story: he writes the story (or background) and then goes away and looks it up later, 'and 90% of the time it is right anyway'. I dispute that final part of it, but the first part of it is pretty obvious. :)

But those are spectacularly appropriate saints, though. I'd love to write a story where the lads encounter the punk movement (who are spectacularly absent in the eps: I can think of one scene with punks in). I think they'd hate punk, which would make it all the more fun. I see Bodie more as a Demis Roussos man and Doyle into rock - probably prog rock - and classical.

Jojo has written a punk story, That Night at Shakespeareoes: http://discoveredinalj.livejournal.com/62121.html

Rugby: yes, I think that technically a conversion is a goal: the 'try' is what gives you the chance to 'try' for goal. As for cricket, I think it's a great game for playing with 'your old mob' - the sort of game where you're always looking for someone to bat at no 9 or 10, and you don't need regular practice sessions.

natsuko1978
Aug. 27th, 2014 06:39 pm (UTC)
Between the fact that my Mum was born in 1947 - and in the 80s looked a bit like Doyle: soft perm the colour of a conker, tall (but not *very* tall) and slender - and Bodie seems to keep raiding my Dad's 1980-wardrobe (seriously, the hideous grey jacket and that horrible brown cardi and the sage-green padded anorak...), I tend to go more for my parents' old record collection when I think of Bodie, Doyle and music. (Though as I said previously, I have no trouble seeing Doyle-the-Rocker and Bodie-the-Mod in 1964!)

I'm also aware that in my 30s I don't have much of a clue about the top 20 or 40. You know?

Maybe, like Willy Russell, Bodie bunked off school to go to The Cavern and listen to the pre-made-it-big Beatles.

The Kinks and the Who always seem a bit Doyle-y (I have a strong mental image atm of him signing along to "Lola" and dodgy dancing!), but I can see Bodie - like my Dad - being all about The Rat Pack, Ella Fitzgerald, Peggy Lee, Lena Horne, Billie Holiday, Nat King Cole, etc.

Maybe they've got some Johnnie Cash, Sandy Shaw, Dusty Springfield, Petula Clark, even Cilla(!), between them. In "modern" music, maybe some Billy Joel? Bread? 10CC? Marvin Gaye and Barry White for seduction? And yes, a bit of Demis Roussos - oh! and Richard Clayderman and Hot Club de France, Django Reinhart and Stephane Grappelli?

I must admit that I took "punk" more as it was used in, say, West Side Story rather than punk-rock/movement. Though another favourite family anecdote - I was under GOSH in 1981 and Mum used to take me to my follow up appointments by train; so you've got Mum, a two-and-a-half yo Dee, a pushchair and whatever bags Mum was lugging. She was trying to get this little lot off the train and a young punk, "all leather, studs, piercings and Mohawk" came up to her and in a beautiful Home Counties/Public School accent, asked, "Excuse me, I wonder if I can be of any help at all?"

As for the cricket - cringe-worthy though Doyle's commentary is, I just love that when Bodie's old mob play the Met Police, he's ALL for Bodie. :D
moonlightmead
Nov. 22nd, 2014 01:55 pm (UTC)
I definitely read this reply when you posted it, because I hadn't thought about the point that Doyle is cheering for Bodie, not for the Met; but I don't remember the story about your gentleman punk - lovely!
natsuko1978
Nov. 22nd, 2014 03:44 pm (UTC)
I also love that story - don't judge by appearances! :D

Talking of punk... I must have been allowed to watch at least some of The Young Ones in the 80s and not just the 90s repeats, because I knew who they were before "The Hole In My Shoe" and the Comic Relief "Living Doll" with Cliff... Mind, I was also allowed to watch Kenny Everett and his Syd Snot... And I'm the wrong age and far from cool but punk and Johnny Rotten, Sid Vicious (even though he was dead) etc were just part of the background as far as I remember, stuff on Pebble Mill and kids' tv... Definitely a missing thread of anarchy, nihilism and pop-culture in Pros.

This is in a family where I wasn't allowed to say bum, damn or bloody, watch soaps and my parents voted for Thatcher... I am quite confused now. Though I suppose you could see the violence in TYO as "cartoon".
natsuko1978
Nov. 20th, 2014 10:47 am (UTC)
I see Bodie more as a Demis Roussos man and Doyle into rock - probably prog rock - and classical.

Belatedly thinking of music - I saw Suzi Quattro on BBC4 recently (you know their TOTP2 and old TOTP eps stuff?) and can't help thinking that Doyle's dancing to the radio at the police station in "Only a Beautiful Picture..." might have been influenced by the "Devil Gate Drive" and is it me or does Doyle sometimes have a bit of a Marc Bolan vibe going on? Can you see him as a glam-rock/T-Rex fan?
moonlightmead
Nov. 22nd, 2014 01:53 pm (UTC)
Can you see him as a glam-rock/T-Rex fan?
Yes! Definitely!

(Although, again, a lot of this is personal prejudice. I like T-Rex, so I want to ascribe the same good taste to him :))
natsuko1978
Nov. 22nd, 2014 03:48 pm (UTC)
I'm a bir of a T-Rex fan myself - and have always thought Bolan was gorgeous. :D

It's hard with 60s and 70s music when you are my age: I wasn't *there* so I can only think about what I have heard (and like).

I'm the wrong generation...
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